'Tus Poj Niam King's Tus Neeg Keeb Kwm Keeb Kwm, Leonard Wantchekon, Hais Lus Sib Tham Thiab Keeb Kwm

Princeton xibfwb Leonard Wantchekon yog tus thawj coj ua yeeb yaj kiab keeb kwm rau Poj Huab Tais, uas tam sim no tau tag nrho $83-million thoob ntiaj teb txij li thaum lub Cuaj Hli pib ua yeeb yam. Tus kws tshawb fawb nyiaj txiag tau raug rub los pab tus thawj coj Gina Prince-Bythewood nrog kev piav qhia thiab lees paub qhov nuance thiab txheej txheej ntawm cov ntaub ntawv keeb kwm nyob ib puag ncig zaj dab neeg ntawm Vaj Ntxwv Ghezo ntawm lub Nceeg Vaj Dahomey, cov poj niam tub rog hu ua Agojie thiab kev lag luam cuam tshuam ntawm intra- Kev lag luam qhev African uas tau hais hauv zaj duab xis nrog rau Transatlantic qhev Trade. (Ghezo tau piav qhia los ntawm John Beyega thiab Viola Davis piav qhia General Nanisca ntawm Agojie.)

Cov yeeb yaj kiab qhia txog cov txheej txheem kev nom kev tswv thiab ntau yam kev xav tau nthuav tawm ntawm kev lag luam - tib neeg thiab cov roj xibtes - thaum lub sijhawm, thaum ntxov 1800s. Wantchekon tau nug los ntawm tsoomfwv Benin kom pab tshawb xyuas qhov tseeb ntawm cov ntaub ntawv no tab sis kuj, nws muaj feem xyuam nrog tus poj niam uas - hauv nws cov hluas - yog Agojie tub rog. Cov dab neeg nyob ib puag ncig cov poj niam no yog ib qho uas tsis tau paub thoob ntiaj teb txog tam sim no.

Wantchekon tham nrog kuv txog nws txoj kev tshawb fawb, txog vim li cas cov keeb kwm zoo li no tau raug faus rau ntev dhau lawm thiab hais txog vim li cas zaj yeeb yaj kiab no nthuav tawm ib feem ntawm keeb kwm uas tsim nyog ci ntau dua.

Nov yog lwm yam uas Wantchekon tau hais.

Qhia kuv seb koj tuaj ua haujlwm li cas Poj Huab Tais?

Wantchekon: Kuv pib taug qab lawv, los ntawm cov pab pawg kawg. Leej twg tawm tsam xyoo 1890-1894 tawm tsam Fabkis. Ntau tus ntawm lawv, koj paub, tuag rau xyoo 1940 thiab 1960s. Txawm muaj ib tug tuag nyob rau xyoo 1970. Kuv sim taug qab lawv, mus rau qhov chaw yug, qhov chaw uas lawv nyob tom qab ua tub rog thiab, tau, lawv cov xeeb leej xeeb ntxwv, me nyuam xeeb ntxwv los nrog peb tham kom peb muaj profile ntawm lawv. Yog li kuv muaj tag nrho ntawm 50 lossis 51. Washington Post tau sau ib zaj dab neeg ntawm kev tshawb fawb, thiab qhov ntawd yog qhov lawv hu rau kuv.

Qhia rau kuv txog koj tsev neeg kev sib txuas nrog Agojie?

Wantchekon: Kuv lub nroog zoo li 35 mais ntawm lub nroog Dahomey. Tom qab ntawd kuv pom tau hais tias ib tug ntawm kuv tsev neeg txuas ntxiv kuj yog ib tug ntawm cov poj niam tub rog. Yog li ntawd kuv thiaj paub hais tias kuv tsev neeg uas txuas ntxiv mus yog ib feem ntawm zaj dab neeg ntawm lub nceeg vaj. Yog li nws ua rau kuv txiav txim siab koom nrog [nrog rau zaj duab xis].

Vim li cas zaj keeb kwm no tseem ceeb rau ntiaj teb pom?

Nws yog ib qho tseem ceeb vim tias tom qab ntawd koj tuaj yeem debunk qee qhov lus dab neeg txog lawv. Vim tias yog koj paub tus kheej zaj dab neeg ntawm ib qho piv txwv ntawm lawv, koj tuaj yeem hais, qhov no yog qhov tseeb. Qhov no tsis yog xav xwb.

Dab tsi ntxiv yog qhov tseem ceeb, keeb kwm hais lus, thaum nws los txog rau cov poj niam ntawm Dahomey?

Ib feem ntawm zaj dab neeg qhia tau hais tias qhov peb pom tsis yog tsuas yog ib tug huab tais los nrog lub tswv yim hais tias poj niam yuav tsum sib ntaus sib tua hauv pab tub rog, [tab sis] cov no yog cov txiaj ntsig ntawm kev coj noj coj ua thaum lub sijhawm. Cov poj niam raug coj los ua txhua yam thiab cuam tshuam nrog cov tub. Yog li cov qauv kev sib raug zoo no yog ib qho laj thawj vim li cas lub koom haum [ntawm Agojie] muaj nyob. Vim hais tias txawm yog huab tais muaj lub tswv yim ua tej yam zoo li ntawd, peb yuav tsum nrhiav cov ntxhais uas haum lub kaus mom profile. Thiab qhov tseem ceeb. Thiab tom qab ntawd ib yam dab tsi uas tau tawm hauv cov yeeb yaj kiab yog li cas poj niam txiv neej suav nrog txhua lub koom haum, vim tias tsoomfwv [muaj] qee txoj haujlwm tseem ceeb xws li Prime Minister thiab Ministry of Religions - tag nrho cov haujlwm tseem ceeb no muaj poj niam thiab txiv neej tub ceev xwm.

Nws yog qhov phem heev uas peb tsis tau qhia txog lawv hauv tsev kawm ntawv. Kuv xav tias yog vim li cas?

Lam muab tso li no. Ntau tus neeg nyob sab Europe uas tau sau txog qhov no tau xaiv ntau yam uas lawv tau sau txog tsoomfwv, lawv tsuas yog tsom mus rau kev lag luam qhev. Yog tias koj nyeem cov ntawv sau txog lawv, nws yog qhov kev xaiv loj heev. Tsis tshua muaj kev mloog rau qhov nthuav dav ntawm lub tsev kawm ntawv. Koj yuav tsum tau nyeem ntawm kab, piv txwv li. Lub nceeg vaj muaj lub rooj sib txoos hauv tebchaws, koj paub, zoo li txhua xyoo rau ib lub lim tiam. Muaj cov nom tswv hauv cheeb tsam sawv cev. Lawv tuaj rau qhov chaw muaj kev sib tham dav dav, zoo li lub rooj sib tham. Lub nceeg vaj muaj lub rooj sib tham kho mob, txhua peb xyoos, qhov twg txhua tus kws kho mob ib txwm sib pauv tswv yim….Yog li kuv qhov kev nkag siab yog tias [European historians], es tsis txhob tshaj tawm txog qhov lawv pom, lawv muaj kev txaus siab rau kev nthuav tawm cov kev xav tsis zoo uas lawv muaj. txog lub teb chaws.

Qee tus neeg tau chim siab rau zaj yeeb yaj kiab tau coj cov nuances ntawm yuav ua li cas qee tus neeg Asmeskas sab hnub poob raug nyiag thiab muag mus ua qhev lossis nkag mus rau hauv kev tsis sib haum xeeb hauv African. Koj teb li cas rau qhov kev thuam ntawd?

Thaum lub sijhawm Ghezo nyob hauv lub hwj chim, koj paub, [tus qhev] kev lag luam tau txo qis heev. Thiab kev koom tes ntawm Ghezo nws tus kheej raug txwv, raws li cov ntaub ntawv uas kuv muaj. Txawm hais tias ua ntej, lossis txawm tias lub sijhawm ntawd muaj qee qhov kev koom tes, nws yuav tsum tsis txhob tshem tawm qhov tseeb tias muaj kev hloov kho tshiab hauv lub sijhawm, tshwj xeeb hauv lub tsev hais plaub, cov poj niam tub rog, cov tub rog - yam tseem ceeb tseem ceeb uas txawm niaj hnub no peb kawm tau los ntawm. Cov yeeb yaj kiab yog txoj cai los ntawm tsis muab ntau qhov tseem ceeb rau qhov ntawd, vim hais tias lub sijhawm ntawd, nws tau dhau los ua cov haujlwm tseem ceeb, feem ntau khiav los ntawm cov neeg tsis yog lub xeev, tsis yog los ntawm huab tais nws tus kheej thiab nws lub palace.

Txawm tias muaj kev thuam, ntau tus kiv cua tseem nyob hauv qhov txaus ntshai ntawm zaj dab neeg. Koj vam tias lwm tus yuav tshem tawm ntawm zaj duab xis li cas?

Nws tsis zoo li 6'5 lossis 7' poj niam ua li no. Kuv xav tias cov lus qhia tob ntawm cov yeeb yaj kiab yog qhov tseeb tias cov ntxhais uas tau coj los ua qhov lawv tau ua thiab lawv tau ua.

Qhov kev xam phaj no yog ib feem ntawm cov kev xam phaj uas delve rau hauv keeb kwm ntawm zaj dab neeg ntawm Poj Huab Tais. Koj tuaj yeem nyeem kuv kev sib tham nrog rau zaj duab xis lub taub hau ntawm pleev thiab prosthetics, Babalwa Mtshiselwa no.